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Post by Billie on Aug 18, 2006 11:46:38 GMT
Can anyone help. On June 3rd 4 budgies came to live with us. Two of the youngest were nest buddies, and about 6 weeks old. They are inseparable always preening each other and if one does some thing the other one has to. Sky the female has developed a dry beak and Minty the young male has dry skin on his beak and cere. I am very worried they might have scaly face. Having said that they are both just finishing their first moult and I've never had such young birds so is it normal for them to get grungy beaks as they develop into 'adulthood'. They all have constant supplies of cuttlefish, iodine block (both of which these two attack frequently) but this seems to be a game as they throw food and oyster shell grit around a lot too. Daily veg is available and all surfaces are scrubbed twice a week. Minty is a one for eating poop so I wonder if it could be some kind of mineral deficiency. So far they are eating, drinking and just as active as normal, although they do scratch a bit but not excessively. The only book I have says scaly face isn't infectious so I haven't separated them. I have tried to get a photo but it doesn't show up very well. Please advise if anyone else has had this problem, I haven't taken them to the vet coz they don't seem bothered by it and just kept a very close eye on them. Sky's seems to be improving but Minty's looks worse. They are always feeding each other and not very good at it so I first wondered weather it was just dry spit but I don't want to ignore it if is is a problem.
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Post by Berserka on Aug 18, 2006 12:36:04 GMT
It could be scaly face. They are caused by mites that burrow into the cere etc. It is contagious. I would suggest you buy Invermectin from the vet & treat all your birds with it every 3-6 months. I haven't used it myself as I have had pretty good success with the scale & mite lotion but I know other people have used it and swear by it.
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Post by Billie on Aug 20, 2006 10:27:28 GMT
Thanks for the quick reply OMG!!!!! The two with the possible problem have been in with the the two that show no signs since July. Harry and Blue show no symptoms. Should I separate them, do I need to get them all checked by a vet then then. Oh they are all in a lovely big cage and getting very trusting, I'm scared if I have to catch and separate them they will stop being tame . Can't leave them with a problem though. If I have to keep catching them to put ointment on won't they get terrified of my hands. This won't mean they will have to be permanently separated will it, we've only just got the big cage and they are so much happier in there. Oh panic, panic
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Post by Billie on Aug 20, 2006 11:09:28 GMT
Well, grrr to the author of my parakeet book who's advice seemed to be completely incorrect about the condition not being contagious! Thank goodness for the Internet and the instant access to up to date advice I did a search and found this GRAPHIC PICTURE www.lbah.com/avian/facemites.htm#causecried my eyes out that my poor beautiful babies might end up with this fate, then continued further down and read that the bird was cured. So far Minty who has it worst, only has a slightly crusty cere and a beak that looks grazed so hopefully its not too bad yet. Since two of the others have no symptoms and Sky's has had some but improved on her own, once they get the treatment should be ok. They've all been moulting and I thought it was part of that as it was their first moult, haven't had such young birds before. I'm going to contact the place where I got the birds from as I had chosen not to buy earlier birds as they showed what I thought was scaley face. Then they will know not to buy from that breeder or to get their cages properly disinfected. I've bought all my birds from there in the past and never had a problem. I hope the treatment will cure them. Is the treatment on going, will I have to retreat for the rest of their lives. I've had birds all my life and until 2 years ago none have needed the vet, my last budgie had to go monthly for an over grown beak, my canary has to go every two months for overgrowing toes and now this. And I told my husband they would be cheap to keep HA!
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Post by Scully on Aug 20, 2006 12:38:26 GMT
Although they wrote on that page
''This bird has the telltale lesions of scaley face mites'' i think this is a little more than ''telltale'' they always show the most serious of cases.
Dont worry Billie, yours will never get like this, you look after them too well. This is a bird that has been neglected, and got that bad..poor little soul
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Post by Julie on Aug 20, 2006 12:59:08 GMT
I know I replied to this! Wonder where it's gone? DOH! Just found my reply in 'memories' here it is in its' proper place!
Don't panic Biillie! I know it's awful to have something go wrong with our birds but scaly face is easily treated and just think,there are so much more worse and serious things they could have had. They will all still be able to live together. I would just keep the infected ones separate till you've treated them but I would also treat the others too just as a precaution.
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Post by Berserka on Aug 22, 2006 12:42:41 GMT
Sorry I didn't reply earlier Billie. Treat all your birds with Ivermectin - whether obviously infected or not - I've been told one drop on the back of the neck is all that it takes as the stuff goes into the bloodstream & kills the mites that way. It doesn't matter how clean you keep the cages, it only takes 1 mite to start it. The vet doesn't need to see the birds - unless s/he refuses to sell it otherwise - as you can do the treatment yourself. Budgies have a pretty short memory & usually will have forgotten the indignity within a couple hours or at most the next day.
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Post by Billie on Aug 22, 2006 19:10:05 GMT
Much love to all you kind people who have helped me out in a crisis one again, and I send you all a virtual bottle of your chosen beverage in gratitude . You guys really rock . I was shocked to find they had this condition as I'm so careful about disinfecting everything that comes into contact with them, I even wipe the cage down twice a week. But I guess birds will be birds , I suppose its like kids getting nits at school doesn't matter how careful you are some things just happen. I'm going get the birds with the problem to the vet just to make sure it is what we all suspect and then if it is treat the others here. Thanks for the reassurance that they will forgive me, I got so happy that they are getting tame and I was worried that having to catch them to treat them would undo all the good work. Blame my hormones I always get paranoid once a month, perils of being a girl!!! I'll let you know how they get on. By the way unless they show symptoms again would this be a one off treatment or an ongoing issue they will have now They have a Java branch, if I soak it in bird disinfectant for a good while will they be able to keep it. I think I'll have to dump the current set of wooden toys as they are colored with food dye so can't disinfect them properly. Shame as I'd just got them some fabulous toys. Still don't want to get them treated then reinfect them with their old toys.
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Post by Berserka on Aug 23, 2006 0:10:53 GMT
You will be able to keep the toys etc even though it is dyed. A good soak for about 1/2 hour in a Nappy soak will do it then rinse in water & sun dry.
It is better to treat them with the Ivermectin every 6 months whether they look like they need it or not. It will keep it away from them.
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Post by Billie on Aug 24, 2006 16:32:51 GMT
Latest update Contacted our normal vet and they gave us details of our nearest avian vet, got an appointment next Tuesday. So far quote is for £30 consultation plus treatment costs. Haven't been to this one before so hope it all goes well. My one concern with Ivermectin is my canary Tilley had a course of treatments with it for possible red mite, before we got the budgies. Tilley had Ivermectin once a week for 3 weeks, since then she has had recurring infected feather follicles and also growths on the site where it was applied . It could be a coincidence but she hadn't shown any of these symptoms before the treatments. Also she looked very off color for several days following each treatment. Tilley is pretty bomb proof she doesn't mind being handled (apart from a token strop) as the vet said she's a compete tart just gives up. The vet gave the treatments not us by the way. Just bad luck or has anyone else had this type of reaction .
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Post by Berserka on Aug 24, 2006 21:46:49 GMT
She might have been allergic to it. Like people, animals might not be able to tolerate certain medications. Just keep an eye on them & if they show similar symtoms discontinue treatment & ask the vet for something else.
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Post by Billie on Aug 28, 2006 16:29:03 GMT
Ohh think of me tomorrow, I'm very anxious about trying a new vet (insert sad smiley that isn't crying). My smallest budge Sky sat on my finger for the first time today so I was thrilled, just hope they really do forgive me. I think if I give them a piece of 'Mummys sorry Millet' they will probably get over it. I'm going to re-read the advice you all gave me about biting as Sky is copying Harry, comes nicely on to my hand then starts munching me. My own fault I offer food treat (veg) to get them to come to me, so I guess they associate my hand with food.
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Post by Billie on Aug 31, 2006 15:05:55 GMT
Well my first experience of an avian vet was not all I would hope for. I admit in the past my birds have seen an ordinary vet, our local one is wonderful full of kind caring staff. Everyone is friendly helpful and wonderful with the birds I would not be too frightened to leave a bird with them if I had to. Went to the avian vet on Tuesday, arrived to hear a strange noise and a parrot screaming in terror behind a closed door with no one making any attempt to talk to it to calm it down. At this point I got worried. When said bird was brought out and plonked on the floor in its carrier and later put in a side room coz it was still screaming, then taken out and put in the back of someones car so it was out of earshot I really wanted to leave. No one said one kind word to this bird and I was very worried about taking my birds in when it was our turn. I felt the vet was a bit heavy handed in catching my birds and I felt like I was a bit of a nuisance. He said it did look like scaly face and would give them a shot of Ivomec. Having read someones experience of loosing a bird in similar circumstances and considering I knew it could also be done with a drip on the neck I said I didn't want them to be injected. He looked in the cupboard and said he didn't have any Ivermec made up and I was horrified that he started to get out a syringe, I thought he was going to do it anyway but he said he would just drip it on them. He checked my other birds and they received the same, I asked him to check out Harry as he does seem to be quite large in the chest the vet said he was over weight and said he expected too much millet. I described their diet and that they had veg every day and didn't have millet since I found out how fattening it was. He said make sure they get more exercise. I felt like a naughty child and that he was implying I wasn't caring for them very well. I would hate to have to go there in a life or death situation. No way would I leave a bird in their care. My husband said maybe he just wasn't a people person. That would be justifiable if he had shown more care and compassion for my birds but he was opening cupboards with my bird in his hand and treating them I felt in a quite offhand way. I don't feed them millet in sprays but when I checked their seed packet it the Pets at Home Budgie mix it is red and white millet. quite worried that this is what is causing the lardiness. Trouble is even if I knew what amounts of each type of individual seed would make a more balance diet the only place that sells it individually is from open hoppers and who knows how long its been open for. This whole thing has been a bit like when you are in one of those shops where you feel so intimidated by the staff that you have to buy something before you can leave, then vow never to go back. There now I feel better, I've vented my spleen over you lot. Sorry about the mess, and after you've all been so supportive too. I'm such an ungrateful child. I don't know whether to be upset or angry, he said to bring Minty back in two weeks if he hasn't improved. I just pray Miny gets better I so don't want to go back there.
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Post by orange on Aug 31, 2006 16:03:30 GMT
Oh Billie, I feel for you, its awful when you get treated like that at a vets. I had a bad experience with a vet recently with my dog who got run over. The whole thing made me so angry that I ended up sending a 6 page typed letter of complaint to the vets and the R.V.C! It's a time when all you want is a bit of compassion for yourself but especially for your animals who are unwell. I was a vet nurse myself, so I know what it is like on the other side of the fence, you spend all day everyday with sick or injured animals for which you have no strong personal emotional attatchment to apart from the fact that you love animals in general. I know of vets and nurses who are very good and even they have their off days, after years and years of doing this job they kind of unattach themsleves from the emotional side of things however they should still treat people and animals with decency and empathy, but not all do. After some things that I saw when working in vets I am always nervous of taking my animals to them especially if they have to stay in, I have now found one that I am happy with after lots of changing about. I hope you find one like that too Billie... more importantly I hope your birds get better
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Post by Berserka on Sept 1, 2006 12:18:35 GMT
Sorry for your bad experience Billie, it's awful when you take an animal to a vet and you feel you can't trust them. Don't worry about the millet content in commercial seeds, the wild budgies' diet is made up mostly of millet and they are certainly healthy animals. Millet sprays are fine also - that is where wild budgies get their millet from - I have some growing in my yard. Those honey seed sticks are not a great thing to give to birds very often.
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